From matt.kroll.talener at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:11:01 2009 From: matt.kroll.talener at gmail.com (M Kroll) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:11:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] PHP, Python Engineer for Interactive Agency in Midtown Manhattan Message-ID: This position is for an experienced, well rounded web engineer. Our client is an interactive development agency located in the heart of Midtown, Manhattan, minutes from Grand Central Station. The core focus is on major web based projects and applications for Pharmaceutical companies. This small and nimble agency has projects lined up for the next year and has hired 4 people in 2009. This need is for a long term consultant to work 40 hours weekly. Telecommuting a few days is optional as are flexible hours. The right person will have a broad web based background and strong knowledge of Open Source frameworks and platforms including: * PHP * Python * Zend and other MVC Frameworks Knowledge of Object Oriented languages is required (Java, C++, C, Perl) as they seek a well rounded, solutions oriented person with the ability to think on their feet and come up with the best solution possible. Local candidates only, please. Matt Kroll Senior Relationship Manager Talener Group -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.sundar at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 02:05:14 2009 From: c.sundar at gmail.com (Sundar Rajan) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:35:14 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Custom PHP MySQL programmer with 6 yrs of exp looking for web development , bug fixing , script installation jobs @ lower rates Message-ID: <1297aea50908052305k7ad71d1en9ff2ab81498d5f63@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I'm a PHP/MySQL Programmer with about 6 yrs of experience in building web applications. Checkout my online portfolio at http://www.sundarrajan.com to know more about my skill-set , projects , experience , client references & contact info. Following are the type of small / contract jobs that I take: Creating Custom scripts Member signup with email verification & login with session authentication Dynamic PDF File generation from the database information using FPDF libraries Command line processing of PHP scripts Installing CAPTCHA security code for the forms Paypal IPN integration Paypal Pro integration Google Maps API to display a location with pop-up info XML parsing to database CSV parsing to database RSS feeds using Carp Handling File uploads Generating statistics reports from the database values Generating Graphical reports from the database values Generating Excel download from the database values Working with complex queries in Mysql console Building application with SEO friendly URLs Installing MySQL , Apache , PHP , SVN , AWStats & software apps in linux boxes I can also take up bigger projects with proper specification documents along with the UI/HTML prototypes. As a verified premier paypal member since 2005 with over 70 seller reputation , I do accept paypal / credit card payments. Please do contact me for further details , if you have any jobs. -- With regards, Sundar Phone: (+1) 510.455.4387 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beau at open-source-staffing.com Thu Aug 6 12:11:52 2009 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould (OSS)) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:11:52 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] [JOB] Senior PHP Engineer, Philadelphia, PA | 100-120k Message-ID: <51638F61B44A42DC94DC33E979CE5EB6@EMACHINE> Senior PHP Engineer, Philadelphia, PA | 100-120k As part of the core engineering team you will work closely with the founders in a fast paced, challenging environment to help shape the technology landscape and culture of the core product. If you enjoy working on high volume platforms, architecting solutions to large scale problems, writing clean code, and want to be involved in building a company from the ground up then we are interested. Smarts are required, set your own hours. * All core engineers receive equity * All on-site positions are in Philadelphia, PA * Oh, and they also offer free food (all meals), drinks, medical, dental and vacation Responsibilities * Join our team to develop the core advertising and optimization platform * Code high-volume ad delivery software * Work closely with engineering team to scale / architect ad platform * Innovate to improve our core technologies * Think outside the box / be highly creative * Be willing to learn new technologies * Help build report interfaces and data feeds * Ask smart questions Requirements * B.S., M.S. or PhD in Computer Science or related field * Enthusiasm for solving interesting problems and a willingness to learn * Experience with source control (SVN, CVS) * Extensive knowledge of open source technologies * Has built a system that has operated on greater than 20 machines * Well versed in HTTP protocol * Experience writing software that communicates directly with 3rd party software (crawlers, automation scripts, API's) * Self-motivated and reliable Pluses * Experience or familiarity with Amazon EC2 and S3 * Experience with ad serving technologies * Experience with large scale distributed computing (MapReduce, Hadoop, Distributed Computing) * Familiar with log processing and data analysis * Scalability / Redundancy / High volume environments * Previous start-up experience When applying, please write up a paragraph or two highlighting your experience as it pertains to this job and include your resume and salary requirements to beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com Thank you, Beau J. Gould Open Source Staffing www.open-source-staffing.com beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com IT Management Conference: http://www.ManageIT.me - Learn from the Greatest Minds in IT! Creators of MySQL & PHP + Gary Vaynerchuk + Chief-Execs at IBM, Forbes, HBO, GE, AIG, Citigroup, more From maryw at caseinteractive.org Thu Aug 6 14:06:33 2009 From: maryw at caseinteractive.org (Mary Waseleski) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:06:33 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Web/Technical Associate Position, Downtown NYC Message-ID: Hi, I have an opening in downtown NYC with a client for a Web/Technical Associate. It is more of a web/intranet/internet maintenance position rather than an application development position. It is junior level, 1-3 years of experience. It is a good company to get experience with. If you are not a fit, please feel free to pass this along to anyone you know who is a fit, even recent grads who have done decent internships could qualify. This is a permanent, full time, onsite position in NYC, no remote work. No sponsorship available. Thanks! Mary Job Duties Include, but not limited to: * Optimize items - PDF, images, logos and designs, etc. for the web * Manage weekly and monthly web deliverables (stat reports, content updates) * design, develop, update and maintain company intranet and client websites * Perform variety of task including multimedia development (Digital Audio Edit), web content management (Using MS Access/MySQL), * Technical consultation and presentation production using Adobe CS2, MSOffice, Flash and WebEx, etc. * Review branding/photographic requirements for projects; Find, manipulate and crop images as needed to enhance design * Helpdesk related tasks as needed Requirements: Basics: * Bachelors degree in computer science * Excellent organizational, communication and interpersonal skills * Creativity * Analytical Thinking Web/Technical Associate needs to be proficient in: * Networking/Server Knowledge * HTML,CSS and basic web design needs * Dreamweaver * Working with audio, video content for web needs In addition this position will require basic knowledge of: * SQL 2000 and 2005 databases * .NET(VB,ASP,C#) * Javascript, VbScript * Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP * Command line functions * Macromedia Flash Our environment is fast paced and dynamic. It requires some one that can go from stop to rapid movement at a moments notice. This position requires a very strong, detail-oriented and independent worker that must be able to work with others. If you welcome diverse responsibilities, can work independently, are detail-oriented and can problem-solve easily you may be our choice. Mary Waseleski Case Interactive Staffing 732-506-9510 office 732-267-6383 mobile maryw at caseinteractive.org www.caseinteractive.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nsherman at cg3.com Fri Aug 7 11:23:48 2009 From: nsherman at cg3.com (Norm Sherman) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:23:48 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] PHP Web Developer (Exchange Place, Jersey City) Message-ID: The Connors Group, headquartered in Jersey City (Exchange Place), New Jersey, has an immediate opening for a full-time PHP Web Developer. We are a small, fast-growing business publishing high-value content for professional traders. Job responsibilities include: Work with product and technical staff to define product requirements Design, develop, enhance, and maintain scalable and robust web applications, components, and modules Develop Web Services and API's for Rich Internet Applications Troubleshoot existing LAMP based applications when necessary You will be working with a team of high-achieving systems developers, writers, editors, financial researchers and successful sales and marketing professionals. Requirements PHP5 MySQL HTML, CSS, and JavaScript Complete utilization of the LAMP stack in a production environment Experience in building commercial-based web applications Solid understanding of SVN source control and disciplined team collaboration Self-motivated, diligent and thorough with a can-do attitude A college degree is required. This job is not suitable for telecommuting or work-from-home arrangements, part-time employment or contractors. Please, no recruiters. For immediate consideration, please email nsherman <> cg3.com with your resume, cover letter and salary history. The Connors Group, Inc. is proud to be an equal-opportunity employer. PAY / BENEFITS Salary commensurate with experience. Benefits include medical, dental, 401(k), transit subsidy and paid vacation and sick days. HOW TO APPLY Connors Group is proud to be an equal-opportunity employer. Please email your resume, including salary history, and a cover letter. No recruiters and no phone calls, please. Applicants should be able to work, full-time, in our Jersey City office. We are proud to be an equal-opportunity employer. Disclaimer: The Connors Group, Inc. ("Company") is not an investment advisory service, nor a registered investment advisor or broker-dealer and does not purport to tell or suggest which securities or currencies customers should buy or sell for themselves. The analysts and employees or affiliates of Company may hold positions in the stocks, currencies or industries discussed here. You understand and acknowledge that there is a very high degree of risk involved in trading securities and/or currencies. The Company, the authors, the publisher, and all affiliates of Company assume no responsibility or liability for your trading and investment results. Factual statements on the Company's website, or in its publications, are made as of the date stated and are subject to change without notice. The opinions, views and/or strategies shared on this forum by participants in the Chairman's Club are not endorsed by Company, and Company assumes no responsibility or liability for any trading and/or investment results that you may obtain by using such information. It should not be assumed that the methods, techniques, or indicators presented in these products will be profitable or that they will not result in losses. Past results of any individual trader or trading system published by Company are not indicative of future returns by that trader or system, and are not indicative of future returns which be realized by you. In addition, the indicators, strategies, columns, articles and all other features of Company's products (collectively, the "Information") are provided for informational and educational purposes only and should not be construed as investment advice. Examples presented on Company's website are for educational purposes only. Such set-ups are not solicitations of any order to buy or sell. Accordingly, you should not rely solely on the Information in making any investment. Rather, you should use the Information only as a starting point for doing additional independent research in order to allow you to form your own opinion regarding investments. You should always check with your licensed financial advisor and tax advisor to determine the suitability of any investment. HYPOTHETICAL OR SIMULATED PERFORMANCE RESULTS HAVE CERTAIN INHERENT LIMITATIONS. UNLIKE AN ACTUAL PERFORMANCE RECORD, SIMULATED RESULTS DO NOT REPRESENT ACTUAL TRADING AND MAY NOT BE IMPACTED BY BROKERAGE AND OTHER SLIPPAGE FEES. ALSO, SINCE THE TRADES HAVE NOT ACTUALLY BEEN EXECUTED, THE RESULTS MAY HAVE UNDER- OR OVER-COMPENSATED FOR THE IMPACT, IF ANY, OF CERTAIN MARKET FACTORS, SUCH AS LACK OF LIQUIDITY. SIMULATED TRADING PROGRAMS IN GENERAL ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE DESIGNED WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. NO REPRESENTATION IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFITS OR LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE SHOWN. The Connors Group, Inc., 10 Exchange Place, Suite 1800, Jersey City, NJ 07302.? 1-973-494-7311 ext. 1 Copyright ? The Connors Group, Inc., 2009. From talltyler at mac.com Tue Aug 11 17:36:06 2009 From: talltyler at mac.com (Tyler Larson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:36:06 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Freelance MovableType Developer In-Reply-To: <1247858828.1898@coral.he.net> References: <1247858828.1898@coral.he.net> Message-ID: Job Title: Freelance MovableType Developer Department: Technology Range: TBD based upon experience. Primary Groups to work with: PM Team Editorial Staff Summary The Freelance MovableType Developer maintains the blogging platform for DailyMakeover.com as well as other associated blogs managed by the company. Day-to-day activities include troubleshooting presentation as well as scripting issues, add or remove analytics tracking code, platform administration, improvements, and module install and maintenance. Skills: ? XHTML / CSS / JavaScript ? PHP ? MT Template XML, YAML ? Good grasp of business direction ? Can understand user experience and strategy from documentation and description Duties and Responsibilities: ? Create functionality as dictated by feature-set and technology leadership ? Troubleshoot and fix bugs with minimal direction Success Factors ? Good interpersonal skills ? Ability to maintain a high velocity development cycle with minimal direction ? Experience in advanced ActionScript 3 software development ? Can quickly pick up interaction intent from documentation and some short conversation About Makeover Solutions Makeover Solutions, Inc., the web?s leading independent beauty site that provides users access to its virtual try-on technology to create customized makeovers. The website has earned a reputation as a leading online destination for health and beauty enthusiasts. Contact Jackie at dailymakeover.com for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trashbin1954 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 12 15:20:11 2009 From: trashbin1954 at yahoo.com (Patrick) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-jobs] The New York Botanical Garden: mid-level LAMP developer Message-ID: <161679.96496.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ? The New York Botanical Garden is recruiting a mid-level LAMP developer to assist in creating & modifying information systems supporting Science, Horticulture, Education and general business missions. ? For a full job description and instructions for submitting your resume, please see http://www.nybg.org/footer/employment_listings_results.php?id_employment_listings=691 ? ? Information Systems Programmer/Analyst ? Basic Job Functions Under the technical direction of the IS Development & Integration Manager, participate in developing, integrating, implementing & administering a range of custom-built and packaged information systems used by The New York Botanical Garden. ? Specific Duties & Responsibilities * Work as part of a team to modify, develop and support systems to serve NYBG?s proprietary business and information needs. * Participate in system analysis and planning activities. * Code, modify and test applications using a variety of technologies and environments including but not limited to: LAMP, XML, XHTML, Delphi, JavaScript, post-Relational, SQL, and web services. * Implement and test new database system development and integrations with existing information systems. * Document systems design, develop training material and deliver training. * Train systems and network administrators to respond to Helpdesk and support tasks for these software packages and customized systems * Self-manage a continuous learning cycle to incorporate new skills. * Other duties as assigned Qualifications * Bachelor degree or equivalent in an information technology development related field. * 5 years or more relevant experience in software or system development, at least 3 years of which is specific to SQL-driven web-enabled processes and includes extensive modification of legacy systems * Knowledge of business systems operations and support (such as retail, financial, CRM, e-commerce, etc). Demonstrated ability to quickly learn and apply specifics of new business systems. * Knowledge and experience in application and database administration and support. * Demonstrated ability to do advanced script and query modification and development using XML, PHP, Delphi, Javascript, XHTML, Post-relational, SQL, and similar environments. * Highly developed customer service skills and attitude, superior communication skills, a personable support manner, patience, resourcefulness, reliability, and a commitment to excellence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jobseekers at adrstaffing.com Fri Aug 14 10:14:55 2009 From: jobseekers at adrstaffing.com (A.D.R. Staffing LLC) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 10:14:55 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Senior Software Development Engineer NYC $$$ Message-ID: <002401ca1ce9$99cbd2f0$6501a8c0@ADRStaffing> We have a client that is looking for a Senior Software Development Engineer. Description: Their current system is a JRuby on Rails application running across 40 servers on EC2. They are looking for an amazing engineer who isn't afraid to dig into any layer of their stack, from the database, through the application code, to the server initialization scripts, to their monitoring tools. You also will be directly involved in the creative process of designing, building, testing, and deploying new systems, features, and functionality. You've got a track record of developing highly scalable web applications, a passion for software development, are an incredibly creative communicator and team player, enjoy brainstorming and defending your ideas rigorously, and are willing to work hard for a competitive salary and meaningful equity. Candidates should: * Have 3-5 years experience shipping well-tested, production web application code in a UNIX environment. * Have 1-3 years experience building web applications using Ruby on Rails. * Be comfortable jumping into database performance tuning in the morning, Javascript/HTML debugging in the afternoon, and finishing the day off brainstorming system architecture. You should have more hats than you know what to do with! * Have a firm grasp of basic Computer Science concepts such as big O notation and data structures. * Exhibit a strong desire to seek out and learn new things, and be as effective a teacher as a learner. * Know when to put down the books and dry-erase markers, fire up an editor, and start building something amazing. Fantastic candidates should: * Have experience on a small team in a fast paced startup environment. * Understand the benefits of agile software practices such as continuous integration and TDD. * Actively participate in open source software, or blog about their engineering experiences. * Have experience with technologies in our stack: EC2, PostgreSQL, JRuby on Rails, Apache Lucene. * Have worked with with machine learning, statistical analysis, or information retrieval algorithms & tools. If you are interested or know someone that might be please contact me ASAP. They are paying about 100K+ for this opening and are looking to interview people ASAP. We pay a solid finders fee if your contact gets placed! A.D.R. Staffing LLC Anthony Del Rio Technical Recruiter www.adrstaffing.com Office - 646-202-9385 Fax - 646-827-9551 Mobile - 347-306-2855 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From corey at core-industries.com Mon Aug 17 16:29:54 2009 From: corey at core-industries.com (corey szopinski) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:29:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Mid / Senior position for Zend expert, Brooklyn, NYC Message-ID: <1FF07F36-AABC-4AC2-8D93-78495870ADBE@core-industries.com> PHP Developer Core Industries is seeking an experienced PHP Developer to join our growing team of committed, conscientious, and talented stars. As a PHP Developer, you will be responsible for building high-profile, high- traffic websites, systems, and other interactive projects. This is a hands-on position, and you must be highly skilled with PHP, MySQL and SVN. You will work on a wide range of projects, architecting and building back-end content management tools, Facebook applications and some server management tools. The ideal candiate has experience with the Zend Framework, as well as Wordpress and/or Drupal. Responsibilities * Design and Develop backend systems using the Zend Framework * Maintain SVN within a team environment * Awareness of best practices and emerging technology / trends Skills * OOP methodology * Strong grasp of design patterns * Experience with Subversion * 3 years of web development and a portfolio to show for it * HTML / CSS / AJAX experience * MySQL tuning experience * Strong attention to detail * Curiosity about HTML5 Core Industries is located in Brooklyn, New York. We are a new breed of interactive design shop. We combine high-end design with technology and focus on the "triple bottom line" of people, planet, and profit. We seek to work with clients that do no harm, and we are looking for people that want to contribute to the world, as well as the world of business. http://core-industries.com We offer: * Competitive salary (based on experience) * Medical and Dental insurance * Retirement plan * Profit Sharing * A laid back work environment (Gunnar, the office chocolate lab sees to that) * Ongoing education * Flexibility to work offsite This position is for freelance leading to possible full-time staff position in our Dumbo office. To be considered, please send your cover letter, resume and example URLs to sayhello at core-industries.com with PHP DEVELOPER as the subject. Please describe your role in each project. From employment at reflexionsdata.com Mon Aug 17 16:43:19 2009 From: employment at reflexionsdata.com (Reflexions Data HR) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:43:19 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] Seeking full-time developer Message-ID: <66ADC7AB-7071-4C24-A057-D25C3562E2B6@reflexionsdata.com> Reflexions Data is seeking applicants for a full-time Web Developer position at our White Plains, NY office. Candidates should have experience with open source web technologies including the LAMP stack, object-oriented development methodologies, and MVC-style frameworks. Knowledge of SQL-based database engines such as MySQL or PostGREsql is required, including query optimization and database normalization principles. A bachelors degree in computer science or a related field is preferred but not required. You?ll be exposed to a variety of client and internal projects and will play a key role in helping to architect, design, and build high performance web applications using the latest development tools. This is a great mid-level position for someone with 1-3 years of professional experience. Reflexions Data is a growing company of creative innovators that develops web applications for top-tier clients in a variety of industries including publishing, marketing, and retail e-commerce. Our office is a casual, fast-paced environment. This is a salaried full-time position including eligibility for membership in our group health plan and 401(k) retirement plan. Apply on our website here: http://www.reflexionsdata.com/company/employment/ From beau at open-source-staffing.com Thu Aug 20 01:12:42 2009 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould (OSS)) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:12:42 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] [JOB] 6-month Contract PHP 5 Developer in NYC at 45/hour Message-ID: <52C07848E4CA408197E1F00C80B97066@EMACHINE> Strong PHP 5, JavaScript and Oracle skills for full time, on-site work in NYC at 45/hour for 6 months. If you're interested, email me. If not, have a nice day. Thank you, Beau J. Gould Open Source Staffing www.open-source-staffing.com beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com From gscherzo at friedmanwilliams.com Thu Aug 20 16:29:56 2009 From: gscherzo at friedmanwilliams.com (Greg Scherzo) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:29:56 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] 3 Week Contract - NYC - Starting 8/24/09 Message-ID: <90EEF3C3F113E840A1115E51485E44360297149ACC@MBX13.EXCHPROD.USA.NET> Good Afternoon Everyone, A client of mine just reached out with an urgent need. They need two PHP Developers to start on Monday August 24th for a three week assignment. Skill set - PHP with Drupal. Local candidates only, no remote work options. Interested parties should send their resumes to gscherzo at friedmanwilliams.com Thank you! Greg Scherzo Senior Recruiter gscherzo at friedmanwilliams.com Friedman Williams Group 485 Seventh Avenue, Fifth Floor, New York, NY 10018 212-867-7000 ext #113 http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregscherzo Get all our latest Tech Openings on Twitter! :: Get all our lastest creative openings on Twitter! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beau at open-source-staffing.com Thu Aug 20 17:35:57 2009 From: beau at open-source-staffing.com (Beau Gould (OSS)) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:35:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] [JOB] Facebook/SQL Developer, NYC - $400/day for 30+ days Message-ID: <56A028F3F6814A5F89C3F278C7CBA216@EMACHINE> I don't have any more information other than that's in the subject line. If you live near NYC and can work on-site in NYC, send me your resume. Thank you, Beau J. Gould Open Source Staffing www.open-source-staffing.com beau-AT-open-source-staffing.com From starphp at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 07:59:08 2009 From: starphp at yahoo.com (Joseph) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or medium size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship.? Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) Presently, we are providing services on:? php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager.? Share this ad with your friends. Thanks for readinghttp://advancedphpsolutions.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaunceyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 08:33:32 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (Chauncey Thorn) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:33:32 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Why is this being posted to the list? I was under the impression it was a job posting list for developers in NYC. I can't think of anyone on this list in the NYC area willing to sit and develop an application at this price and to have an organization in India post a message here under cutting every ones based price. Is Offensive..!!!!!!! We want the development jobs in *NYC* not India that's why the list is * nyphp-jobs*. Nothing personal - Just business. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Joseph wrote: > Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or medium > size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship. > Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) > > Presently, we are providing services on: > > php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming > > frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP > > All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. > > Share this ad with your friends. > > > Thanks for reading > http://advancedphpsolutions.com > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chaunceyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 08:42:28 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (Chauncey Thorn) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 08:42:28 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <882793.75881.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <882793.75881.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Joseph wrote: > > oh what can I do now? I am going through the site to remove the ad..anyway, > I won't post my advertisement on this site. > > > --- On *Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn * wrote: > > > From: Chauncey Thorn > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > To: "Joseph" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:09 PM > > > It's to late - when you clicked send it went to everyone on the list.! > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Joseph > > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Sorry, Only I think abt post an advertisement.. I will try to remove it.. >> >> Thanks. >> >> --- On *Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn >> >* wrote: >> >> >> From: Chauncey Thorn >> > >> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects >> To: "Joseph" > >> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org >> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:03 PM >> >> >> Why is this being posted to the list? I was under the impression it was a >> job posting list for developers in NYC. >> >> I can't think of anyone on this list in the NYC area willing to sit and >> develop an application at this price and to have an organization in India >> post a message here under cutting every ones based price. Is >> Offensive..!!!!!!! >> >> We want the development jobs in *NYC* not India that's why the list is * >> nyphp-jobs*. >> >> Nothing personal - Just business. >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Joseph >> > wrote: >> >>> Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or >>> medium size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship. >>> Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) >>> >>> Presently, we are providing services on: >>> >>> php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming >>> >>> frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP >>> >>> All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. >>> >>> Share this ad with your friends. >>> >>> >>> Thanks for reading >>> http://advancedphpsolutions.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>> >>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>> http://www.nyphpcon.com >>> >>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chauncey Thorn >> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator >> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com >> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ >> >> >> > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From guilhermeblanco at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 09:42:48 2009 From: guilhermeblanco at gmail.com (Guilherme Blanco) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:42:48 -0300 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: References: <882793.75881.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chauncey, Please don't start flaming. I think anyone in the world can join the list, even the ones that do not live exactly in NYC. If the guy thinks it's enough to him to get 15 USD/hour, leave him alone. It's not you or anyone else that should judge other people. Also, skills you only get with time. Any company can think that pay 3 USD/hour is a good thing, but later it can really see if it was a good thing or not. Anyway, I'm suspicious too to talk. I live in Brazil and I follow this list because sometimes we get interesting talks about interviews, etc. Cheers, On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Chauncey Thorn wrote: > Thanks > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Joseph wrote: >> >> oh what can I do now? I am going through the site to remove the >> ad..anyway, I won't post my advertisement on this site. >> >> >> --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn wrote: >> >> From: Chauncey Thorn >> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects >> To: "Joseph" >> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:09 PM >> >> It's to late - when you clicked send it went to everyone on the list.! >> >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Joseph wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Sorry, Only I think abt post an advertisement.. I will try to remove >>> it.. >>> Thanks. >>> >>> --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn wrote: >>> >>> From: Chauncey Thorn >>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects >>> To: "Joseph" >>> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org >>> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:03 PM >>> >>> Why is this being posted to the list? I was under the impression it was a >>> job posting list for developers in NYC. >>> >>> I can't think of anyone on this list in the NYC area willing to sit and >>> develop an application at this price and to have an organization in India >>> post a message here under cutting every ones based price.? Is >>> Offensive..!!!!!!! >>> >>> We want the development jobs in NYC not India that's why the list is >>> nyphp-jobs. >>> >>> Nothing personal - Just business. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Joseph wrote: >>>> >>>> Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or >>>> medium size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship. >>>> Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) >>>> Presently, we are providing services on: >>>> php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming >>>> frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP >>>> All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. >>>> Share this ad with your friends. >>>> >>>> Thanks for reading >>>> http://advancedphpsolutions.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >>>> >>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com >>>> >>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP >>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chauncey Thorn >>> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator >>> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com >>> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chauncey Thorn >> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator >> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com >> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ >> > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > -- Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9215-8480 MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com URL: http://blog.bisna.com S?o Paulo - SP/Brazil From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Tue Aug 25 09:55:18 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:55:18 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251208518.14816@coral.he.net> Anyone can go on Craig's List and find pages of "budget minded" people who are seeking skilled programmers for $10/hr. Of course, one also sees the same people advertising months later for "market rate" programmers to fix whatever didn't turn out the way it should have in their $10-an-hr fantasy of an outcome. Important skills needed to be successful in developing applications for business are: knowledge of business processes, various industries' data formats and tasks, how to interview the users in a way that lets them tell you what you need to know about what they want in an application even when they say they are "not sure", and just general exposure to and ability to glean the culture and language of, the environment you are coding for -- and these are the types of skills lacking in overseas development teams. These are also the types of skills that developers taking on "mid sized" projects must have because there is no fancy business analyst in a suit to deal with these issues for you... Kristina From chaunceyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 09:55:57 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (Chauncey Thorn) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:55:57 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: References: <882793.75881.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm not flaming.. Just chosing not to be PC. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Guilherme Blanco wrote: > Chauncey, > > Please don't start flaming. > I think anyone in the world can join the list, even the ones that do > not live exactly in NYC. > If the guy thinks it's enough to him to get 15 USD/hour, leave him > alone. It's not you or anyone else that should judge other people. > > Also, skills you only get with time. Any company can think that pay 3 > USD/hour is a good thing, but later it can really see if it was a good > thing or not. > > Anyway, I'm suspicious too to talk. I live in Brazil and I follow this > list because sometimes we get interesting talks about interviews, etc. > > > Cheers, > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Chauncey Thorn > wrote: > > Thanks > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Joseph wrote: > >> > >> oh what can I do now? I am going through the site to remove the > >> ad..anyway, I won't post my advertisement on this site. > >> > >> > >> --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn wrote: > >> > >> From: Chauncey Thorn > >> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > >> To: "Joseph" > >> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:09 PM > >> > >> It's to late - when you clicked send it went to everyone on the list.! > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Joseph wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> Sorry, Only I think abt post an advertisement.. I will try to remove > >>> it.. > >>> Thanks. > >>> > >>> --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Chauncey Thorn wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Chauncey Thorn > >>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > >>> To: "Joseph" > >>> Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > >>> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:03 PM > >>> > >>> Why is this being posted to the list? I was under the impression it was > a > >>> job posting list for developers in NYC. > >>> > >>> I can't think of anyone on this list in the NYC area willing to sit and > >>> develop an application at this price and to have an organization in > India > >>> post a message here under cutting every ones based price. Is > >>> Offensive..!!!!!!! > >>> > >>> We want the development jobs in NYC not India that's why the list is > >>> nyphp-jobs. > >>> > >>> Nothing personal - Just business. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Joseph wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or > >>>> medium size projects to create portfolio and building client > relationship. > >>>> Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) > >>>> Presently, we are providing services on: > >>>> php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming > >>>> frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP > >>>> All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. > >>>> Share this ad with your friends. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for reading > >>>> http://advancedphpsolutions.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > >>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > >>>> > >>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > >>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com > >>>> > >>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP > >>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Chauncey Thorn > >>> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > >>> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > >>> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Chauncey Thorn > >> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > >> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > >> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer > CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant > Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9215-8480 > MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com > URL: http://blog.bisna.com > S?o Paulo - SP/Brazil > -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webmiester at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 12:10:25 2009 From: webmiester at gmail.com (Web) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:10:25 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: References: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chauncey, That makes sense to me! Thanks! Of course the messenger is welcome to start a INDIAphp-jobs list. Thanks again. Rob From: Chauncey Thorn Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:33 AM To: Joseph Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Why is this being posted to the list? I was under the impression it was a job posting list for developers in NYC. I can't think of anyone on this list in the NYC area willing to sit and develop an application at this price and to have an organization in India post a message here under cutting every ones based price. Is Offensive..!!!!!!! We want the development jobs in NYC not India that's why the list is nyphp-jobs. Nothing personal - Just business. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Joseph wrote: Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or medium size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship. Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) Presently, we are providing services on: php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. Share this ad with your friends. Thanks for reading http://advancedphpsolutions.com _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webmiester at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 15:32:12 2009 From: webmiester at gmail.com (Web) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:32:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <422AE2899E124ED5AA082ACAF8E59919@WebWorksPC> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. Nor do I get work from India. That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW YORK! Start your own IndiaPHP list. Thank you, Rob From: Joseph Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:59 AM To: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Start Up web development firm based in India is looking for small or medium size projects to create portfolio and building client relationship. Our rate is 8 to 15 USD (depending on the technologies used) Presently, we are providing services on: php-mysql based procedural or oop based programming frameworks programming in Codeigniter & cakePHP All projects will be managed by highly experienced manager. Share this ad with your friends. Thanks for reading http://advancedphpsolutions.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at devonianfarm.com Tue Aug 25 15:50:12 2009 From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul A Houle) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:50:12 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <422AE2899E124ED5AA082ACAF8E59919@WebWorksPC> References: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <422AE2899E124ED5AA082ACAF8E59919@WebWorksPC> Message-ID: <4A944074.5070106@devonianfarm.com> Web wrote: > I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. > > Nor do I get work from India. > > That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW > YORK! > > Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > Thank you, > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you just get ripped. From chaunceyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 17:27:45 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (Chauncey Thorn) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:27:45 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <4A944074.5070106@devonianfarm.com> References: <814225.29693.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <422AE2899E124ED5AA082ACAF8E59919@WebWorksPC> <4A944074.5070106@devonianfarm.com> Message-ID: Folks, I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted the advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what employers are looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above minimum wage here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of the state of the application after developed. I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base price is 8 times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure there are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why would we want those types of Ads. I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are willing to write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the NY is going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. Nothing personal (and I mean that) To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it said 8 - 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or developers in NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in NYC. Thanks. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle wrote: > Web wrote: > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. >> Nor do I get work from India. >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW >> YORK! >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. >> Thank you, >> >> > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you > just get ripped. > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Tue Aug 25 19:02:26 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:02:26 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone feels our work is worth "minimum wage". And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our field that would perform the core functions that they do in other industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union programmers...or whatever the solution might be. I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and even potentially harmful. Happy coding everyone, Kristina > > Folks, > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted the > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what employers are > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above minimum wage > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of the > state of the application after developed. > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base price is 8 > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure there > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why would we > want those types of Ads. > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are willing to > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the NY is > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it said 8 - > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or developers in > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in NYC. > > > Thanks. > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle wrote: > > > Web wrote: > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. > >> Nor do I get work from India. > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW > >> YORK! > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > From chaunceyt at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 19:46:01 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (Chauncey Thorn) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:46:01 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> Message-ID: I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. CT On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson < ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote: > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the > > state of the application after developed. > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we > > want those types of Ads. > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > wrote: > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > jobs. NEW > > >> YORK! > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > dollar > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > a lot > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > underprice > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > people to > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > cases, you > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Tue Aug 25 20:05:05 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:05:05 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251245105.30147@coral.he.net> Chauncey, Your point about unions is very valid and of course, I was just putting out suggestions because we would, naturally, as programmers want to examine every tiny nuance of any potential solutions and analyze them until the cows come home for robustness and completeness... But, as a population, programmers tend to be extremely self-motivating and conscientious about their work product, investing each 1000 lines of generated code with a pregnancy of meaning that makes a Presidential Election or World Series seem positively insignificant in comparison. Therefore, I'd personally expect that the "union effect" you describe below would be less pronounced among programmers than in other populations. And besides, what's wrong with getting paid to do nothing once in awhile, most other people get paid to do nothing all the time :) Kristina > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number > of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to > be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson < > ka at kacomputerconsulting.com> wrote: > > > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > > even potentially harmful. > > > > Happy coding everyone, > > > > Kristina > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > > the > > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > > employers are > > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > > minimum wage > > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > > the > > > state of the application after developed. > > > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > > price is 8 > > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > > there > > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > > would we > > > want those types of Ads. > > > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > > willing to > > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > > NY is > > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > > said 8 - > > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > > developers in > > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > > NYC. > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > wrote: > > > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > > India. > > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > > jobs. NEW > > > >> YORK! > > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > > >> Thank you, > > > >> > > > >> > > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > > dollar > > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > > encourage other > > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > > a lot > > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > > underprice > > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > > by about > > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > > people to > > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > > cases, you > > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Chauncey Thorn > > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > From jobs-tech at languagemate.com Tue Aug 25 20:54:59 2009 From: jobs-tech at languagemate.com (Brian Engler) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:54:59 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] PHP Developer position in NYC Message-ID: PHP Developer Seeking a talented and dedicated PHP Developer to join our growing internal development team. The ideal candidate will have at least 3 to 5 years of professional experience building robust PHP and MySQL applications in a production LAMP environment. At LanguageMate (http://www.languagmate.com/), we are developing innovative solutions for the healthcare industry, including e-learning systems for physicians and nurses, clinical decision support tools, and patient-oriented health educational platforms. This is an on-site position, based in our midtown Manhattan office. Only local applicants who are authorized to work in the US will be considered. No recruiters or phone calls please. Qualifications ? Bachelor?s degree or higher in Computer Science or related discipline ? 3 - 5+ years professional experience in object-oriented PHP5 and MySQL application development ? Excellent communication skills, detail oriented, motivated and ability to thrive as a member of a multi-disciplinary team ? Enjoy finding elegant solutions to complex problems ? Comfortable working as an integral member in our team environment ? Ability to learn quickly, work independently, and take ownership of tasks, processes, and products Technical Skills ? In-depth knowledge of application engineering processes ? Expertise building applications using OO PHP5, MySQL, SQL, MVC, CSS, HTML, DHTML, xHTML, JavaScript, AJAX, SVN, and Frameworks ? Familiar with Eclipse, templating, caching, sessions, and authentication ? Experienced crafting complex, optimized SQL queries ? Excellent debugging and troubleshooting skills ? Aware of web standards, their purpose, benefits and appropriateness ? Experience implementing and customizing Content Management Systems required ? Strong MySQL experience is a plus ? Strong understanding of Linux is a plus ? Experience with Moodle, Drupal, or Joomla is a plus ? Experience with adaptive learning systems, user personalization, or data mining is a plus How to Apply Apply to jobs-tech at languagemate.com . No phone calls please. Send cover letter in the body of email and include resume as an attachment; include ?PHP Developer? in the subject heading. Please indicate in the cover letter where you heard about this position, your available start date, salary history and salary expectations, and where you found the job posting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savedian at starpoint.com Wed Aug 26 09:51:15 2009 From: savedian at starpoint.com (Shahan Avedian) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:51:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> Message-ID: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored...there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay...its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. SA From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM To: Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. CT On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone feels our work is worth "minimum wage". And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our field that would perform the core functions that they do in other industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union programmers...or whatever the solution might be. I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and even potentially harmful. Happy coding everyone, Kristina > > Folks, > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted the > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what employers are > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above minimum wage > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of the > state of the application after developed. > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base price is 8 > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure there > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why would we > want those types of Ads. > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are willing to > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the NY is > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it said 8 - > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or developers in > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in NYC. > > > Thanks. > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > wrote: > > > Web wrote: > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. > >> Nor do I get work from India. > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW > >> YORK! > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ ________________________________ Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility ________________________________ This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aditya.r.d at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 10:21:05 2009 From: aditya.r.d at gmail.com (Aditya) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:51:05 +0530 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> Message-ID: <26f3a010908260721y20928a25la7d8d532406a56f7@mail.gmail.com> Good point. People don't always offshore because its cheaper, there is a talent gap somewhere aswell. I am based in India aswell, represent a software firm and I can tell you this, eventually Indian firms and US software firms would be competing on skills & service rather than solely on price because the prices are evening out overall in both markets anyways. Currently though there is a price difference (no 8$ or even 15$ is not even a fair price even in India). But providers/programmers in US have other advantages over India programmers - proximity, location, cultural advantage, communication, skills, domain-market experience etc etc. This might pinch some, but frankly if i owned a web consulting business in US, and hiring programmers offshore saves me say 40% of my expenditure, it can be the difference between a loss making business & a profitable one, why wldn't I do it, would i worry about my family's well being/investors first or care about a nagging employee who is looking for a pay hike in a bad economy & not helping my business much anyways? We have firms who would become loss making the day they hire local staff (for some skills if they can even manage to find local staff it would be surprising), they are only profitable because they have a managed team in India. All's fair here, Its just how you sell on your strength. All about ROI. Just my 2 cents, no right or wrongs here. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Shahan Avedian wrote: > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area.?? I can tell you right > now I have jobs paying? 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find > people for right in Manhattan.? The one's that are qualified are all working > and won't consider it. ?I speak to consultants all the time who will not get > off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ?( Some would view 95.00 as a > pay cut). ??It all comes down to skill set. ?For every job that is being > offshored?there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any > intention of being offshored. > > > > Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer?cannot tell you > how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got > paid $100.00 per hour.?? Offshoring is hear to stay?its not just in the > computer programming world.? If companies can get the same thing done at a > cheaper rate its going to go abroad.? If they need a real heavy hitter its > going to stay here. ?The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims > and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your > problems.? I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers > who don't share these views. > > > > SA > > > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On > Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number > of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to > be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: > > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. ?In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? ?Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. ?Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > >> >> Folks, >> >> I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the >> advertisement. ?I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are >> looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage >> here. ?I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the >> state of the application after developed. >> >> I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 >> times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there >> are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we >> want those types of Ads. >> >> I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to >> write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is >> going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. >> Nothing personal (and I mean that) >> >> To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - >> 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. >> When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in >> NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. >> >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > wrote: >> >> > Web wrote: >> > >> >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. >> >> ?Nor do I get work from India. >> >> ?That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. ?For New York PHP > jobs. ?NEW >> >> YORK! >> >> ?Start your own IndiaPHP list. >> >> ?Thank you, >> >> >> >> >> > ? People in India don't get work from India. ?A big drop in the > dollar >> > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other >> > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. >> > >> > ? There are some world-class organizations in India, ?and there are > a lot >> > of smaller ones that aren't so good. ?Overall, ?India tends to > underprice >> > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about >> > 2/3. ?In the better cases, ?you're paying for more people and for > people to >> > manage the extra people, ?and get good results. ?In the worst > cases, ?you >> > just get ripped. >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List >> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs >> > >> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online >> > http://www.nyphpcon.com >> > >> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP >> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Chauncey Thorn >> PHP Developer/Systems Administrator >> email: chaunceyt at gmail.com >> url: http://www.cthorn.com/ >> >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > ________________________________ > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital > and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, > community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on > trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint > and our social responsibility at > http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > ________________________________ > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, > conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the > official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither > given nor endorsed by it. > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Wed Aug 26 10:49:42 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:49:42 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251298182.11780@coral.he.net> Let's be realy clear here and clarify that nobody that responded to this thread -- myself, Chauncey or the other NYC PHPers, ever made ANY comment about "not being able to find work" and I'm puzzled and concerned about why it's being turned into that. Do employers and recruiters really fear empowered technical employees to that extent, that any discussion by us about empowering ourselves economically has to be turned into a bogus claim that we're whiny and unemployed? Kristina > > Here here, SA. I could not agree with you more. There are an absolute metric ton of jobs out there for people with the right skill set. All you need to do is be plugged in and willing to learn new stuff. - Alexander > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Shahan Avedian > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored...there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. > > Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay...its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. > > SA > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the > > state of the application after developed. > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we > > want those types of Ads. > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > wrote: > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > jobs. NEW > > >> YORK! > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > dollar > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > a lot > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > underprice > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > people to > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > cases, you > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > ________________________________ > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > ________________________________ > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > From chaunceyt at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 11:55:14 2009 From: chaunceyt at gmail.com (chaunceyt at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:55:14 +0000 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <1251298182.11780@coral.he.net> References: <1251298182.11780@coral.he.net> Message-ID: <1626949990-1251302078-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1090979709-@bxe1032.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I can't stress enough why I even responded to the message!! On the NYPHP Jobs list having a post requesting PHP work for 8 - 15 USD for work in India. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Kristina D. H. Anderson" Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:49:42 To: Sicular, Alexander; 'Shahan Avedian'; Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson; jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: RE: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Let's be realy clear here and clarify that nobody that responded to this thread -- myself, Chauncey or the other NYC PHPers, ever made ANY comment about "not being able to find work" and I'm puzzled and concerned about why it's being turned into that. Do employers and recruiters really fear empowered technical employees to that extent, that any discussion by us about empowering ourselves economically has to be turned into a bogus claim that we're whiny and unemployed? Kristina > > Here here, SA. I could not agree with you more. There are an absolute metric ton of jobs out there for people with the right skill set. All you need to do is be plugged in and willing to learn new stuff. - Alexander > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Shahan Avedian > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored...there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. > > Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay...its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. > > SA > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the > > state of the application after developed. > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we > > want those types of Ads. > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > wrote: > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > jobs. NEW > > >> YORK! > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > dollar > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > a lot > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > underprice > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > people to > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > cases, you > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > ________________________________ > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > ________________________________ > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > From webmiester at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 14:24:09 2009 From: webmiester at gmail.com (Web) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:24:09 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> Message-ID: <331E6AE254A74DF8A0DB105F2ED8AFF2@WebWorksPC> Shahan, For some reason I just don't believe you. Sorry. Your email is nonsense. Rob From: Shahan Avedian Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM To: Chauncey Thorn ; Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored.there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer.cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay.its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. SA From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM To: Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. CT On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson wrote: I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone feels our work is worth "minimum wage". And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our field that would perform the core functions that they do in other industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union programmers...or whatever the solution might be. I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and even potentially harmful. Happy coding everyone, Kristina > > Folks, > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted the > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what employers are > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above minimum wage > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of the > state of the application after developed. > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base price is 8 > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure there > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why would we > want those types of Ads. > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are willing to > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the NY is > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it said 8 - > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or developers in > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in NYC. > > > Thanks. > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle wrote: > > > Web wrote: > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. > >> Nor do I get work from India. > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW > >> YORK! > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savedian at starpoint.com Wed Aug 26 15:04:54 2009 From: savedian at starpoint.com (Shahan Avedian) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:04:54 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <331E6AE254A74DF8A0DB105F2ED8AFF2@WebWorksPC> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> <331E6AE254A74DF8A0DB105F2ED8AFF2@WebWorksPC> Message-ID: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924DA7@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> I have had several people contact me and I will say here what I said to them. The 300K package type jobs are not PHP positions. They are C++/Java/C# positions involved with developing trading systems. My point was to illustrate many high paying jobs are sitting unfilled here in NYC simply because there is not enough people to fill them. These jobs are not being outsourced. As a recruiter I suffer as much as anyone when something is outsourced to India..however everytime gets outsourced it seems another skill set is needed here and only. Below is the relevant excerpt from an article that just appeared in the New York Times regarding the programmer who was caught stealing from Goldman.... This guy would be a typical example of what we deal with. (Hence 300K package is viewed with a yawn). Mr. Aleynikov immigrated to the United States from Russia in 1991. In 1998, he joined IDT a telecommunications company, where he wrote software to route calls and data more efficiently. In 2007, Goldman hired him as a vice president, paying him $400,000 a year, according to the federal complaint against him..... This spring, Mr. Aleynikov quit Goldman to join Teza Technologies, a new trading firm, tripling his salary to about $1.2 million, according to the complaint. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/business/24trading.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Goldman%20Sachs%20and%20programmer&st=cse As for Drupal/Php developers..it is absolute true. Like ANY skill set, your going to find people all over the range. I spoke to enough of them where people commanding that kind of rate is not an aberration. As for you Rob, you can continue to believe in whatever you would like, amazing at how sure you are of yourself. SA From: Web [mailto:webmiester at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:24 PM To: Shahan Avedian; Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Shahan, For some reason I just don't believe you. Sorry. Your email is nonsense. Rob From: Shahan Avedian Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM To: Chauncey Thorn ; Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored...there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay...its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. SA From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM To: Kristina D. H. Anderson Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. CT On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone feels our work is worth "minimum wage". And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our field that would perform the core functions that they do in other industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union programmers...or whatever the solution might be. I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and even potentially harmful. Happy coding everyone, Kristina > > Folks, > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted the > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what employers are > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above minimum wage > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of the > state of the application after developed. > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base price is 8 > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure there > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why would we > want those types of Ads. > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are willing to > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the NY is > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it said 8 - > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or developers in > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in NYC. > > > Thanks. > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > wrote: > > > Web wrote: > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in India. > >> Nor do I get work from India. > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP jobs. NEW > >> YORK! > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the dollar > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and encourage other > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are a lot > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to underprice > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US by about > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for people to > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst cases, you > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php -- Chauncey Thorn PHP Developer/Systems Administrator email: chaunceyt at gmail.com url: http://www.cthorn.com/ ________________________________ Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility ________________________________ This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php ________________________________ Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility ________________________________ This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Wed Aug 26 15:37:47 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:37:47 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251315467.14822@coral.he.net> Rob -- what's really going on is this. All of Wall street is looking for "that tech guy" who is going to do everything short of part the Red Sea for them in terms of enabling trading-area profits. The one who is exactly 27 years old, has exactly a 3.8 GPA in the departmental area of the Ivy League university of their choice and who will consent to working 120-hour weeks in a slavepit with a bunch of animalistic traders, and who preferably will rat out their previous employers' trade secrets after being hired, all the while wearing a tie, for the "total compensation of 300K". "That tech guy" is the Holy Grail for the technical recruiter, the one they all seek ... for the commission payout on a 300k deal is, for a technical recruiter, no small bag of chips. So now it is late August, and a very slow part of the year in what must have been a very, very dismal one for Wall street technical recruiters, and frustration and boredom builds up while they wait for "that tech guy" to show up, and some of that trickles down to us on our little PHP jobs list, because we are not "that tech guy" but merely non- commissionable or readily available knats buzzing around with the temerity to protest the advertisement of cheap $8 an hour outsourced "PHP engineering"... I don't think we should take it personally. $100/hr, that must be the consulting rate for "that tech guy"...? Kristina > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > Shahan, > > For some reason I just don't believe you. Sorry. Your email is nonsense. > > > Rob > > > > > From: Shahan Avedian > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Chauncey Thorn ; Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored.there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. > > > > Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer.cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay.its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. > > > > SA > > > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson wrote: > > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the > > state of the application after developed. > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we > > want those types of Ads. > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > wrote: > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > jobs. NEW > > >> YORK! > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > dollar > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > a lot > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > underprice > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > people to > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > cases, you > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com Wed Aug 26 15:46:20 2009 From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina D. H. Anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:46:20 -0700 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <1251315980.16519@coral.he.net> Like I just said, it's a lazy late August day and you're all waiting for "that tech guy" their clients want for the trading systems to show up... :) Somehow, Shahan, I don't really think the other 10,000 or so working programmers in NYC care if "that tech guy" and his 300K compensation get outsourced or not...? All we want is for our skills to be valued appropriately in the marketplace, and for our hard work to be appreciated. Because we objected to our skills being valued at $8/hr, you felt compelled to email us and tell us we have a "victim mentality" and I'm quite frankly not sure why. Kristina > > I have had several people contact me and I will say here what I said to them. The 300K package type jobs are not PHP positions. They are C++/Java/C# positions involved with developing trading systems. My point was to illustrate many high paying jobs are sitting unfilled here in NYC simply because there is not enough people to fill them. These jobs are not being outsourced. As a recruiter I suffer as much as anyone when something is outsourced to India..however everytime gets outsourced it seems another skill set is needed here and only. > > Below is the relevant excerpt from an article that just appeared in the New York Times regarding the programmer who was caught stealing from Goldman.... This guy would be a typical example of what we deal with. (Hence 300K package is viewed with a yawn). > > Mr. Aleynikov immigrated to the United States from Russia in 1991. In 1998, he joined IDT a telecommunications company, where he wrote software to route calls and data more efficiently. In 2007, Goldman hired him as a vice president, paying him $400,000 a year, according to the federal complaint against him..... This spring, Mr. Aleynikov quit Goldman to join Teza Technologies, a new trading firm, tripling his salary to about $1.2 million, according to the complaint. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/business/24trading.html? _r=1&scp=1&sq=Goldman%20Sachs%20and%20programmer&st=cse > As for Drupal/Php developers..it is absolute true. Like ANY skill set, your going to find people all over the range. I spoke to enough of them where people commanding that kind of rate is not an aberration. > As for you Rob, you can continue to believe in whatever you would like, amazing at how sure you are of yourself. > SA > > > > From: Web [mailto:webmiester at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:24 PM > To: Shahan Avedian; Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > Shahan, > > For some reason I just don't believe you. Sorry. Your email is nonsense. > > > Rob > > > > From: Shahan Avedian > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Chauncey Thorn ; Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). It all comes down to skill set. For every job that is being offshored...there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor is there any intention of being offshored. > > Just recently I was looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer...cannot tell you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a job unless they got paid $100.00 per hour. Offshoring is hear to stay...its not just in the computer programming world. If companies can get the same thing done at a cheaper rate its going to go abroad. If they need a real heavy hitter its going to stay here. The sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you have control over the quicker you will solve your problems. I can tell you first hand there are whole classes of programmers who don't share these views. > > SA > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:jobs- bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > I'm not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very complacent knowing that they going to be making the same regardless. I feel this could de-value the profession. > > CT > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: > I for one am grateful to see the passionate opinions being voiced > here. In an industry where so much is expected of us in terms of > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like no other > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. wage reduction), we > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that anyone > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold that "computer > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what they get paid, or > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza and we are > good to go...and how much can that cost? Please, programmers are not > all the same, and some even have families they need to support, or > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of their lives > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no money...*GASP*. > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core of > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling organizations in our > field that would perform the core functions that they do in other > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of talent and to > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or salary rates > in our industry. Or a programmer's union that could mandate that the > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 or whatever > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that don't use union > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC programmers by > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN HOUR should > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS offensive, and > even potentially harmful. > > Happy coding everyone, > > Kristina > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the person who posted > the > > advertisement. I monitor the list for Jobs in NYC to see what > employers are > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is .75 above > minimum wage > > here. I have ZERO desire to compete with those prices regardless of > the > > state of the application after developed. > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 year and my base > price is 8 > > times the lowest they would take to develop an application. I'm sure > there > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the same boat. Why > would we > > want those types of Ads. > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in India that are > willing to > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP developer in the > NY is > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt the competition. > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with the Ad but when it > said 8 - > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP recruiters and/or > developers in > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't benefit anyone in > NYC. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > wrote: > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I don't have any friends in > India. > > >> Nor do I get work from India. > > >> That's why I'm on this NEW YORK PHP list. For New York PHP > jobs. NEW > > >> YORK! > > >> Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > >> Thank you, > > >> > > >> > > > People in India don't get work from India. A big drop in the > dollar > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to the US and > encourage other > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in goods and services. > > > > > > There are some world-class organizations in India, and there are > a lot > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. Overall, India tends to > underprice > > > software development work (and other white collar) done in the US > by about > > > 2/3. In the better cases, you're paying for more people and for > people to > > > manage the extra people, and get good results. In the worst > cases, you > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > -- > Chauncey Thorn > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > ________________________________ > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > ________________________________ > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > ________________________________ > Since 1982, Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, environment, community and social concerns. We foster an inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > ________________________________ > This email message from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > From Andy at grafixwerks.com Wed Aug 26 16:09:03 2009 From: Andy at grafixwerks.com (Andy Pearson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:09:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <1251315467.14822@coral.he.net> References: <1251315467.14822@coral.he.net> Message-ID: <3434.24.239.184.28.1251317343.squirrel@www.grafixwerks.com> Been reading discussion and wanted to add my 2 cents. None of this is fair, but life isn?t fair and there is no justice, at least not in this life. The people who hire off Craig?s list and Guru.com at $10 an hour are not people you want to work for. This is why, 1 They are clueless, they don?t know enough about business to realize if you want it done right and on time you have to pay market rate. (They don?t even know what market rate is) There will be a lot of hand holding and explaining the basics of the internet. 2 They have no respect for your profession and think anyone could do it. They won?t listen to any advice, and will have unrealistic expectations. 3 They will comeback time and again with changes and expect them to be free 4 They are also likely to not pay you in full Basically you end up dealing with people like this http://www.vendorclientvideo.com/ Most fields have a cut rate option and a high quality option. There is McDonald's and there are gourmet restaurants. Some people are happy to eat at McDonald?s, and have no one to blame but themselves when they have a heart attack. Regards, Andy Pearson Grafixwerks Design Where technology and creativity meet www.grafixwerks.com andy at grafixwerks.com office: 718-874-6381 mobile: 347-743-0716 http://www.linkedin.com/in/grafixwerks From smanes at magpie.com Thu Aug 27 00:14:02 2009 From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:14:02 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> Message-ID: <4A96080A.5080302@magpie.com> Shahan Avedian wrote: > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you > right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we > cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified > are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the > time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( > Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr consulting gigs posted here? From ppashin at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 01:39:49 2009 From: ppashin at gmail.com (Pasha Probiv) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:39:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <4A96080A.5080302@magpie.com> References: <1251241346.17835@coral.he.net> <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924C83@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> <4A96080A.5080302@magpie.com> Message-ID: <3d79fc4c0908262239i2c3827e8sd3334291875fcc32@mail.gmail.com> How do I unsubscribe from this list On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Steve Manes wrote: > Shahan Avedian wrote: > >> I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you >> right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot >> find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all >> working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will >> not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view >> 95.00 as a pay cut). >> > > Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr > consulting gigs posted here? > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > -- Best, Pasha Probiv One West Street, #100 New York NY 10004 212-514-6728 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Chris at oakridgestaffing.com Thu Aug 27 09:47:24 2009 From: Chris at oakridgestaffing.com (Chris Jones) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:47:24 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] LAMP Devveloper Message-ID: White Plains, NY client looking for mid-senior level LAMP developer. Excellent opportunity to join a organization on the way up. Role will start as a senior developer and could lead into more a Team leadership role in the near future. I have many more details if you're interested. Interviews will start on Wednesday 8/25. Christopher Jones Oakridge Staffing 550 Mamaroneck Avenue, suite 201 Harrison, NY 10528 (914) 471- 4273 office (914) 588-4864 cell (914) 471-4280 fax Chris at Oakridgestaffing.com www.oakridgestaffing.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pyurt at yahoo.com Thu Aug 27 13:55:44 2009 From: pyurt at yahoo.com (pyurt) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects Message-ID: <839029.74521.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Doesn't sound like PHP was mentioned in this posting. When I hear of packages of this size I think sales not development. PY On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Steve Manes wrote: Shahan Avedian wrote: I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr consulting gigs posted here? _______________________________________________ New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online http://www.nyphpcon.com Show Your Participation in New York PHP http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php From codebowl at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:30:35 2009 From: codebowl at gmail.com (Joseph Crawford) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:30:35 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <839029.74521.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <839029.74521.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A96DEDB.4040501@gmail.com> that is interesting. for that kind of money i would move to manhattan :) They just don't exist out there from what I have seen. On 08/27/2009 01:55 PM, pyurt wrote: > Doesn't sound like PHP was mentioned in this posting. > > When I hear of packages of this size I think sales not development. > > PY > > On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Steve Manes wrote: > > Shahan Avedian wrote: > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view 95.00 as a pay cut). > > Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr consulting gigs posted here? > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > From gary066 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 27 20:25:46 2009 From: gary066 at yahoo.com (gary066 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <8EA37B362510F041843410BA815C044D0E80924DA7@NYMBXCLUS.WIN.STARPOINT.COM> Message-ID: <295982.1920.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A lot of the 'high paying' jobs are going unfilled because they are in reality a big pay cut from consulting, not due to a lack of people. It's the free market at work. I have run my own consulting company for the past 5 years - generally we have anywhere between 2 and 10 consultants on projects depending on business cycle; I personally have two CS degrees from Carnegie Mellon and 15 years experience in Java/J2EE/SOA. I have been an employee for 9 of those years, a consultant for 6 (I still bill myself out). The 150K base positions generally result in 60 hour work weeks; no comparison when compared to rates that are in the 90-125hr range for every hour. I have a client in another state with a high level architect position paying 150-175 base. Getting resumes has been extremely difficult - the problem is not a lack of interested people, the problem is they require full time status. That kills the interest. I have dealt with a lot of PHPers. I've never had one ask for $95. They know their value in general. Unions are not the answer (I don't see outsourcing as a problem). Unions are for industries where there is little differentiation in productivity. The difference in productivity between a good and bad developer is orders of magnitude. --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Shahan Avedian wrote: > From: Shahan Avedian > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > To: "Web" , "Chauncey Thorn" , "Kristina D. H. Anderson" > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > I have > had several people contact me and I will say here what I > said to them.? The 300K package type jobs are not PHP > positions.? They are C++/Java/C# positions > involved > with developing trading systems.? My point was to > illustrate many high paying jobs are sitting unfilled here > in NYC simply because there is not enough people to fill > them.? These jobs are not being outsourced.? As a > recruiter I suffer as much as anyone when > something is outsourced to India..however everytime gets > outsourced it seems another skill set is needed here and > only. > > > ? > Below > is the relevant ?excerpt from an article that just > appeared in the New York Times? regarding the > programmer who was caught stealing from Goldman?. This > guy would be > a typical example of what we deal with.? (Hence 300K > package is viewed with a yawn). > > ? > Mr. Aleynikov immigrated to the > United States from Russia in 1991. In 1998, he joined IDT a > telecommunications company, where he wrote software to route > calls and data more efficiently. In 2007, Goldman hired him > as a vice president, > paying him $400,000 a year, according to the federal > complaint against him?.. This spring, Mr. Aleynikov > quit Goldman to join Teza Technologies, a new trading firm, > tripling his salary to about $1.2 million, according to the > complaint. ?http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/business/24trading.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Goldman%20Sachs%20and%20programmer&st=cse > > As for Drupal/Php > developers..it is absolute true. Like ANY skill set, your > going to find people all over the range.? I spoke to > enough of them where people commanding that kind > of rate is not an aberration. ? > As for you Rob, you can > continue to believe in whatever you would like, amazing at > how sure you are of yourself. > > SA > > ? > ? > ? > > > From: Web [mailto:webmiester at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:24 PM > > To: Shahan Avedian; Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. > Anderson > > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size > projects > > > ? > > Shahan, > > > ? > > > For some reason I just > don't believe you.? Sorry.? Your email is > nonsense. > > > ? > > > ? > > > Rob > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > ? > > > > From: > Shahan Avedian > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 > AM > > > To: > Chauncey Thorn ; > > Kristina D. H. Anderson > > > Cc: > jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for > medium size projects > > > > > ? > > I am a technical > recuriter based out of the NYC area.?? I can tell > you right now I have jobs paying? 150k with 300K total > package that we cannot find people > for right in Manhattan.? The one's that are > qualified are all working and won't consider it. ?I > speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the > sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ?( Some would view > 95.00 as a pay cut). ??It all comes down to skill > set. ?For every job that is being > offshored?there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor > is there any intention of being offshored. > > ? > Just recently I was > looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer?cannot tell > you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a > job unless they got paid > $100.00 per hour.?? Offshoring is hear to > stay?its not just in the computer programming > world.? If companies can get the same thing done at a > cheaper rate its going to go abroad.? If they need a > real heavy hitter its going to stay here. ?The sooner > people > stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you > have control over the quicker you will solve your > problems.? I can tell you first hand there are whole > classes of programmers who don't share these > views.? > > ? > SA > ? > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size > projects > > ? > I'm > not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been > exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very > complacent knowing that they going to be making the same > regardless. I feel this could de-value > the profession. > > > > CT > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, > Kristina D. H. Anderson > wrote: > I for one am grateful to see the > passionate opinions being voiced > > here. ?In an industry where so much is expected of us > in terms of > > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like > no other > > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. > wage reduction), we > > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that > anyone > > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold > that "computer > > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what > they get paid, or > > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza > and we are > > good to go...and how much can that cost? ?Please, > programmers are not > > all the same, and some even have families they need to > support, or > > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of > their lives > > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no > money...*GASP*. > > > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core > of > > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling > organizations in our > > field that would perform the core functions that they do in > other > > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of > talent and to > > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or > salary rates > > in our industry. ?Or a programmer's union that > could mandate that the > > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 > or whatever > > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that > don't use union > > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC > programmers by > > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN > HOUR should > > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS > offensive, and > > even potentially harmful. > > > > Happy coding everyone, > > > > Kristina > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the > person who posted > > the > > > advertisement. ?I monitor the list for Jobs in > NYC to see what > > employers are > > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is > .75 above > > minimum wage > > > here. ?I have ZERO desire to compete with those > prices regardless of > > the > > > state of the application after developed. > > > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 > year and my base > > price is 8 > > > times the lowest they would take to develop an > application. I'm sure > > there > > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the > same boat. Why > > would we > > > want those types of Ads. > > > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in > India that are > > willing to > > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP > developer in the > > NY is > > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt > the competition. > > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with > the Ad but when it > > said 8 - > > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP > recruiters and/or > > developers in > > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't > benefit anyone in > > NYC. > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > wrote: > > > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I > don't have any friends in > > India. > > > >> ?Nor do I get work from India. > > > >> ?That's why I'm on this NEW YORK > PHP list. ?For New York PHP > > jobs. ?NEW > > > >> YORK! > > > >> ?Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > > >> ?Thank you, > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ? People in India don't get work from > India. ?A big drop in the > > dollar > > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to > the US and > > encourage other > > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in > goods and services. > > > > > > > > ? There are some world-class organizations > in India, ?and there are > > a lot > > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. > ?Overall, ?India tends to > > underprice > > > > software development work (and other white > collar) done in the US > > by about > > > > 2/3. ?In the better cases, ?you're > paying for more people and for > > people to > > > > manage the extra people, ?and get good > results. ?In the worst > > cases, ?you > > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Chauncey Thorn > > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Chauncey Thorn > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > ? > > > > Since 1982, Starpoint > Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and > solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, > environment, community and social concerns. We foster an > inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid > performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social > responsibility at > http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > > > This email message from > Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. Any unauthorized > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original > message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this > message that do not relate > to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be > understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > Since 1982, > Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human > capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, > employees, environment, community and social concerns. We > foster an inclusive culture based > on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn > more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at > http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > > > > This email message > from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, > disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original > message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this > message that do not relate to the official business of > Starpoint Solutions shall > be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php From paul at devonianfarm.com Fri Aug 28 10:19:49 2009 From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul A Houle) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:19:49 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects In-Reply-To: <295982.1920.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <295982.1920.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A97E785.3060104@devonianfarm.com> gary066 at yahoo.com wrote: > A lot of the 'high paying' jobs are going unfilled because they are in reality a big pay cut from consulting, not due to a lack of people. It's the free market at work. I have run my own consulting company for the past 5 years - generally we have anywhere between 2 and 10 consultants on projects depending on business cycle; I personally have two CS degrees from Carnegie Mellon and 15 years experience in Java/J2EE/SOA. I have been an employee for 9 of those years, a consultant for 6 (I still bill myself out). The 150K base positions generally result in 60 hour work weeks; no comparison when compared to rates that are in the 90-125hr range for every hour. I have a client in another state with a high level architect position paying 150-175 base. Getting resumes has been extremely difficult - the problem is not a lack of interested people, the problem is they require full time status. That kills the interest. > > I have dealt with a lot of PHPers. I've never had one ask for $95. They know their value in general. > > Unions are not the answer (I don't see outsourcing as a problem). Unions are for industries where there is little differentiation in productivity. The difference in productivity between a good and bad developer is orders of magnitude. > > I used to believe that thing about developer productivity, but now I don't. The environment in which you are working has a big effect on your productivity. If you're developing command-line batch processing scripts, and the requirements are well known, you can be 10x more productive than you can be in a project where you get useless requirements documents, need to argue with your boss to get to talk to the customers to revisit the spec, then leave ten phone messages for the customers, finally get to talk to them, have a good conversation about the specs -- then they call you back an hour later and you need to explain the business process model that you worked out again. Then there's the week it takes to go back and forth with the GUI designer, etc. Early studies in software engineering showed that "coding" is about 1/5 of the time it takes to design an app: you've also got testing, deployment, requirements work, and design. Even if you could eliminate the coding time to zero with some supercompiler or by hiring a superdeveloper, you're still left with 4/5 of the time consumed by other activities. We've all encountered "superproductive" developers whose MO is to do the 20% of the work that gets 80% of the results, and then split town. A developer who's got a lot more skill and really understands what it takes to get things into production ends up looking like a plodding idiot in comparison, because they're the ones who have to normalize the database tables, add the "htmlspecialchars()" so that the app isn't busted when somebody types a quote into a form field, deal with cross-browser issues and all the other stuff that takes a lot of time. The "plodder" knows perfectly well that the app would have been better off it building it in a framework, but got involved too late in the game to really make that move. From mail.samgeorge at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 10:24:15 2009 From: mail.samgeorge at gmail.com (Sam George) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:24:15 -0400 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] PHP Developer Message-ID: Hi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scottmgress at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:14:53 2009 From: scottmgress at gmail.com (Scott Gress) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:14:53 -0500 Subject: [nycphp-jobs] enough already! Message-ID: When I get emails from this list, I'm excited to see what new job opportunities have surfaced. Can we please stop this thread already? Nothing of value has been said in awhile, and every time I open another email from the list I'm disappointed to see that it's just another response to "looking for medium size projects". Thanks Scott On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 9:19 AM, wrote: > Send jobs mailing list submissions to > jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > jobs-request at lists.nyphp.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > jobs-owner at lists.nyphp.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of jobs digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: looking for medium size projects (pyurt) > 2. Re: looking for medium size projects (Joseph Crawford) > 3. Re: looking for medium size projects (gary066 at yahoo.com) > 4. Re: looking for medium size projects (Paul A Houle) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:55:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: pyurt > To: Steve Manes > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > Message-ID: <839029.74521.qm at web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Doesn't sound like PHP was mentioned in this posting. > > When I hear of packages of this size I think sales not development. > > PY > > On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Steve Manes wrote: > > Shahan Avedian wrote: > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you > right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot > find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all > working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will > not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view > 95.00 as a pay cut). > > Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr > consulting gigs posted here? > _______________________________________________ > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:30:35 -0400 > From: Joseph Crawford > To: pyurt > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > Message-ID: <4A96DEDB.4040501 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > that is interesting. for that kind of money i would move to manhattan > :) They just don't exist out there from what I have seen. > > On 08/27/2009 01:55 PM, pyurt wrote: > > Doesn't sound like PHP was mentioned in this posting. > > > > When I hear of packages of this size I think sales not development. > > > > PY > > > > On Aug 27, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Steve Manes wrote: > > > > Shahan Avedian wrote: > > I am a technical recuriter based out of the NYC area. I can tell you > right now I have jobs paying 150k with 300K total package that we cannot > find people for right in Manhattan. The one's that are qualified are all > working and won't consider it. I speak to consultants all the time who will > not get off the sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ( Some would view > 95.00 as a pay cut). > > > > Interesting. How come I haven't seen any of these $300k/year and $95/hr > consulting gigs posted here? > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:25:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: "gary066 at yahoo.com" > To: Web , Chauncey Thorn , > "Kristina D. H. Anderson" , > Shahan > Avedian > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > Message-ID: <295982.1920.qm at web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > A lot of the 'high paying' jobs are going unfilled because they are in > reality a big pay cut from consulting, not due to a lack of people. It's the > free market at work. I have run my own consulting company for the past 5 > years - generally we have anywhere between 2 and 10 consultants on projects > depending on business cycle; I personally have two CS degrees from Carnegie > Mellon and 15 years experience in Java/J2EE/SOA. I have been an employee > for 9 of those years, a consultant for 6 (I still bill myself out). The 150K > base positions generally result in 60 hour work weeks; no comparison when > compared to rates that are in the 90-125hr range for every hour. I have a > client in another state with a high level architect position paying 150-175 > base. Getting resumes has been extremely difficult - the problem is not a > lack of interested people, the problem is they require full time status. > That kills the interest. > > I have dealt with a lot of PHPers. I've never had one ask for $95. They > know their value in general. > > Unions are not the answer (I don't see outsourcing as a problem). Unions > are for industries where there is little differentiation in productivity. > The difference in productivity between a good and bad developer is orders > of magnitude. > > --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Shahan Avedian wrote: > > > From: Shahan Avedian > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > > To: "Web" , "Chauncey Thorn" , > "Kristina D. H. Anderson" > > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 12:04 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have > > had several people contact me and I will say here what I > > said to them.? The 300K package type jobs are not PHP > > positions.? They are C++/Java/C# positions > > involved > > with developing trading systems.? My point was to > > illustrate many high paying jobs are sitting unfilled here > > in NYC simply because there is not enough people to fill > > them.? These jobs are not being outsourced.? As a > > recruiter I suffer as much as anyone when > > something is outsourced to India..however everytime gets > > outsourced it seems another skill set is needed here and > > only. > > > > > > ? > > Below > > is the relevant ?excerpt from an article that just > > appeared in the New York Times? regarding the > > programmer who was caught stealing from Goldman?. This > > guy would be > > a typical example of what we deal with.? (Hence 300K > > package is viewed with a yawn). > > > > ? > > Mr. Aleynikov immigrated to the > > United States from Russia in 1991. In 1998, he joined IDT a > > telecommunications company, where he wrote software to route > > calls and data more efficiently. In 2007, Goldman hired him > > as a vice president, > > paying him $400,000 a year, according to the federal > > complaint against him?.. This spring, Mr. Aleynikov > > quit Goldman to join Teza Technologies, a new trading firm, > > tripling his salary to about $1.2 million, according to the > > complaint. ? > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/business/24trading.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Goldman%20Sachs%20and%20programmer&st=cse > > > > As for Drupal/Php > > developers..it is absolute true. Like ANY skill set, your > > going to find people all over the range.? I spoke to > > enough of them where people commanding that kind > > of rate is not an aberration. ? > > As for you Rob, you can > > continue to believe in whatever you would like, amazing at > > how sure you are of yourself. > > > > SA > > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > > > > From: Web [mailto:webmiester at gmail.com] > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:24 PM > > > > To: Shahan Avedian; Chauncey Thorn; Kristina D. H. > > Anderson > > > > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size > > projects > > > > > > ? > > > > Shahan, > > > > > > ? > > > > > > For some reason I just > > don't believe you.? Sorry.? Your email is > > nonsense. > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > From: > > Shahan Avedian > > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:51 > > AM > > > > > > To: > > Chauncey Thorn ; > > > > Kristina D. H. Anderson > > > > > > Cc: > > jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for > > medium size projects > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > I am a technical > > recuriter based out of the NYC area.?? I can tell > > you right now I have jobs paying? 150k with 300K total > > package that we cannot find people > > for right in Manhattan.? The one's that are > > qualified are all working and won't consider it. ?I > > speak to consultants all the time who will not get off the > > sofa unless they get 95.00 per hour. ?( Some would view > > 95.00 as a pay cut). ??It all comes down to skill > > set. ?For every job that is being > > offshored?there are other jobs cannot be offshored nor > > is there any intention of being offshored. > > > > ? > > Just recently I was > > looking for Strong PHP/Drupal developer?cannot tell > > you how many people I spoke who just wouldn't consider a > > job unless they got paid > > $100.00 per hour.?? Offshoring is hear to > > stay?its not just in the computer programming > > world.? If companies can get the same thing done at a > > cheaper rate its going to go abroad.? If they need a > > real heavy hitter its going to stay here. ?The sooner > > people > > stop viewing themselves as victims and focus on what you > > have control over the quicker you will solve your > > problems.? I can tell you first hand there are whole > > classes of programmers who don't share these > > views.? > > > > ? > > SA > > ? > > > > From: jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org > > [mailto:jobs-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] > > On Behalf Of Chauncey Thorn > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:46 PM > > > > To: Kristina D. H. Anderson > > > > Cc: jobs at lists.nyphp.org > > > > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size > > projects > > > > ? > > I'm > > not sure a Union would solve the problem. I've been > > exposed to a number of Union workers and they become very > > complacent knowing that they going to be making the same > > regardless. I feel this could de-value > > the profession. > > > > > > > > CT > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 PM, > > Kristina D. H. Anderson > > wrote: > > I for one am grateful to see the > > passionate opinions being voiced > > > > here. ?In an industry where so much is expected of us > > in terms of > > > > knowledge and commitment, and which has been subjected like > > no other > > > > profession to the forces of "globalization" (i.e. > > wage reduction), we > > > > do need to consider, really, how offensive it truly is that > > anyone > > > > feels our work is worth "minimum wage". > > > > > > > > And we are subjected to insulting stereotypes which hold > > that "computer > > > > geeks" enjoy their work too much to care about what > > they get paid, or > > > > that all we need are some old T-shirts and some cold pizza > > and we are > > > > good to go...and how much can that cost? ?Please, > > programmers are not > > > > all the same, and some even have families they need to > > support, or > > > > possibly even other goals besides spending the rest of > > their lives > > > > toiling over a hot text editor for practically no > > money...*GASP*. > > > > > > > > This all comes back to the issue that I feel is at the core > > of > > > > things...the lack of licensing or credentialling > > organizations in our > > > > field that would perform the core functions that they do in > > other > > > > industries...namely to maintain a certain exclusivity of > > talent and to > > > > fight against economic pressures seeking to dampen wage or > > salary rates > > > > in our industry. ?Or a programmer's union that > > could mandate that the > > > > MINIMUM hourly rate for any union programmer is $40 or $50 > > or whatever > > > > they decide on...and make it hard on companies that > > don't use union > > > > programmers...or whatever the solution might be. > > > > > > > > I feel that attempting to take work away from NYC > > programmers by > > > > undercutting our billing rates to the tune of 8 DOLLARS AN > > HOUR should > > > > be explicitly prohibited on this list, because it IS > > offensive, and > > > > even potentially harmful. > > > > > > > > Happy coding everyone, > > > > > > > > Kristina > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > > > I was not trying to be rude or disrespectful to the > > person who posted > > > > the > > > > > advertisement. ?I monitor the list for Jobs in > > NYC to see what > > > > employers are > > > > > looking for. Seeing someone posting an Ad for what is > > .75 above > > > > minimum wage > > > > > here. ?I have ZERO desire to compete with those > > prices regardless of > > > > the > > > > > state of the application after developed. > > > > > > > > > > I've been developing PHP application for over 7 > > year and my base > > > > price is 8 > > > > > times the lowest they would take to develop an > > application. I'm sure > > > > there > > > > > are other PHP developer here in NYC that are in the > > same boat. Why > > > > would we > > > > > want those types of Ads. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sure there are some skilled PHP developers in > > India that are > > > > willing to > > > > > write applications for 8-15 USD. But no skilled PHP > > developer in the > > > > NY is > > > > > going to work for those prices and I spoke up to halt > > the competition. > > > > > Nothing personal (and I mean that) > > > > > > > > > > To be honest I didn't really have a problem with > > the Ad but when it > > > > said 8 - > > > > > 15 USD. I couldn't let it slide. > > > > > When it comes to "*jobs*" I only care if PHP > > recruiters and/or > > > > developers in > > > > > NYC benefit from this list and that message didn't > > benefit anyone in > > > > NYC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Paul A Houle > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Web wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> I would share this with my friends but I > > don't have any friends in > > > > India. > > > > > >> ?Nor do I get work from India. > > > > > >> ?That's why I'm on this NEW YORK > > PHP list. ?For New York PHP > > > > jobs. ?NEW > > > > > >> YORK! > > > > > >> ?Start your own IndiaPHP list. > > > > > >> ?Thank you, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ? People in India don't get work from > > India. ?A big drop in the > > > > dollar > > > > > > would be good because it would bring jobs back to > > the US and > > > > encourage other > > > > > > countries to develop balanced local markets in > > goods and services. > > > > > > > > > > > > ? There are some world-class organizations > > in India, ?and there are > > > > a lot > > > > > > of smaller ones that aren't so good. > > ?Overall, ?India tends to > > > > underprice > > > > > > software development work (and other white > > collar) done in the US > > > > by about > > > > > > 2/3. ?In the better cases, ?you're > > paying for more people and for > > > > people to > > > > > > manage the extra people, ?and get good > > results. ?In the worst > > > > cases, ?you > > > > > > just get ripped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Chauncey Thorn > > > > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > > > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > > > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Chauncey Thorn > > > > PHP Developer/Systems Administrator > > > > email: chaunceyt at gmail.com > > > > url: http://www.cthorn.com/ > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Since 1982, Starpoint > > Solutions has been a trusted source of human capital and > > solutions. We are committed to our clients, employees, > > environment, community and social concerns. We foster an > > inclusive culture based on trust, respect, honesty and solid > > performance. Learn more about Starpoint and our social > > responsibility at > > http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > > > > > > > This email message from > > Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > > information. Any unauthorized > > review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > > sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original > > message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this > > message that do not relate > > to the official business of Starpoint Solutions shall be > > understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > > > > > > > > Since 1982, > > Starpoint Solutions has been a trusted source of human > > capital and solutions. We are committed to our clients, > > employees, environment, community and social concerns. We > > foster an inclusive culture based > > on trust, respect, honesty and solid performance. Learn > > more about Starpoint and our social responsibility at > > http://www.starpoint.com/social_responsibility > > > > > > > > > > This email message > > from Starpoint Solutions LLC is for the sole use of the > > intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, > > disclosure or distribution is prohibited. > > If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > > sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original > > message. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this > > message that do not relate to the official business of > > Starpoint Solutions shall > > be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > New York PHP Community Jobs Mailing List > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online > > http://www.nyphpcon.com > > > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:19:49 -0400 > From: Paul A Houle > To: "gary066 at yahoo.com" > Cc: "jobs at lists.nyphp.org" > Subject: Re: [nycphp-jobs] looking for medium size projects > Message-ID: <4A97E785.3060104 at devonianfarm.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > gary066 at yahoo.com wrote: > > A lot of the 'high paying' jobs are going unfilled because they are in > reality a big pay cut from consulting, not due to a lack of people. It's the > free market at work. I have run my own consulting company for the past 5 > years - generally we have anywhere between 2 and 10 consultants on projects > depending on business cycle; I personally have two CS degrees from Carnegie > Mellon and 15 years experience in Java/J2EE/SOA. I have been an employee > for 9 of those years, a consultant for 6 (I still bill myself out). The 150K > base positions generally result in 60 hour work weeks; no comparison when > compared to rates that are in the 90-125hr range for every hour. I have a > client in another state with a high level architect position paying 150-175 > base. Getting resumes has been extremely difficult - the problem is not a > lack of interested people, the problem is they require full time status. > That kills the interest. > > > > I have dealt with a lot of PHPers. I've never had one ask for $95. They > know their value in general. > > > > Unions are not the answer (I don't see outsourcing as a problem). Unions > are for industries where there is little differentiation in productivity. > The difference in productivity between a good and bad developer is orders > of magnitude. > > > > > I used to believe that thing about developer productivity, but now > I don't. > > The environment in which you are working has a big effect on your > productivity. If you're developing command-line batch processing > scripts, and the requirements are well known, you can be 10x more > productive than you can be in a project where you get useless > requirements documents, need to argue with your boss to get to talk to > the customers to revisit the spec, then leave ten phone messages for > the customers, finally get to talk to them, have a good conversation > about the specs -- then they call you back an hour later and you need to > explain the business process model that you worked out again. Then > there's the week it takes to go back and forth with the GUI designer, etc. > > Early studies in software engineering showed that "coding" is about > 1/5 of the time it takes to design an app: you've also got testing, > deployment, requirements work, and design. Even if you could eliminate > the coding time to zero with some supercompiler or by hiring a > superdeveloper, you're still left with 4/5 of the time consumed by > other activities. > > We've all encountered "superproductive" developers whose MO is to do > the 20% of the work that gets 80% of the results, and then split town. > A developer who's got a lot more skill and really understands what it > takes to get things into production ends up looking like a plodding > idiot in comparison, because they're the ones who have to normalize the > database tables, add the "htmlspecialchars()" so that the app isn't > busted when somebody types a quote into a form field, deal with > cross-browser issues and all the other stuff that takes a lot of time. > The "plodder" knows perfectly well that the app would have been better > off it building it in a framework, but got involved too late in the > game to really make that move. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > jobs mailing list > jobs at lists.nyphp.org > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs > > End of jobs Digest, Vol 34, Issue 19 > ************************************ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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